Wednesday
Jan162008
A Question on God's Immutability
Wednesday, January 16, 2008 at 3:50PM and a grammar question, too.
My email inbox can be a fun place, so I’m letting you in on the fun by responding to one piece of mail right here on the blog. I have two reasons for doing it that way. First, the questions and responses might be of general interest; and second, I could use my readers’ help.
Here goes. From the email, first question:
I read your post regarding God’s immutability that you posted on Sept 27, 2005: http://theologica.worldmagblog.com/theologica/archives/2005/09/gods_immutabili_1.html
This link no longer works, but you’ll find what is essentially the same post here: God’s Immutability.
You stated, “And while it seems certain that he does not feel emotions in exactly the same way we do, we still need to take seriously the statements of scripture that show him exercising love or joy or anger or wrath.”
Since I posted on Theologica, I’ve gone through all the posts on God’s attributes and revised them, and that statement is one of the places I changed things. I changed the word exercising to manifesting because, after some thought, I decided it more accurately describes what scripture intends to express when it talks about God rejoicing or being grieved, etc.
Recently, I’ve been trying to find verses that show God is completely content with Himself and does not need us for His joy. You stated that you knew of verses that illustrate Him exercising His joy; have you ever seen any verses that demonstrate the concept I’ve been searching for?
This question touches on the subject of God’s impassibility, along with his immutability, independence and asceity (or self-existence). I think it is right to say that God is not dependent on us for his joy, or anything else, for that matter. He is independent, so if he expresses joy, this expression of joy is willingly initiated by him and is not caused by his creatures or his creation.
Moreover, God has always existed and will always exist in constant fullness or perfection, so it would be wrong for us to think that our existence or our actions have in any way added to his joy or any other of his affections.
If I were going to support that from scripture, here are some of the texts I’d use:
The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man, nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all mankind life and breath and everything.
In other words, everything comes from God. He is not dependent on us for anything, and anything would include his own feelings or emotions, or, more precisely, his affections. God is the source of all things, including his own joy.
For from him and through him and to him are all things.
This comes right after a statement saying that no one can be God’s counselor or give anything to him. We are unable to actually give anything to God because everything flows the other way. Everything originates within him, is worked by him, and flows back to him. When God rejoices over his people, his joy comes from within himself and he independently wills his expression of it.
At the same time, we can glean from what scripture says about God’s activities in his creation that the constant fullness of his affections is manifested differently according to the nature of specific events in history. Confusing? Yep, but we only really know emotions as they exist for us as dependent, changing, finite creatures. I suppose this is another one of those things that we just have to file under the incomprehensibility of God.
I welcome additional responses to this question. What would you add? What would you disagree with and why?
Now the second question, and here’s where I really need extra help:
Off topic, but also recently, heh, I’ve been trying to improve my grammar skills. I’ve checked out multiple books from the library, and I have learned a lot, but at the same time, I’m left with many questions that these books fail to answer….I was wondering if you know of any grammar books that go into extreme depth, or grammar books that you find helpful.
I’m going to have to admit that what grammar I know I learned from my mother’s constant correction and my own constant reading, not from grammar books or lessons. Mostly, I just do whatever feels, looks, or sounds right to me, and figure that’ll be good enough.
If I have a question, I look it up in The Chicago Manual of Style, which is a family favorite.
What help can you give to someone who wants to learn grammar? What books would you suggest?
Reader Comments (8)
My favorite Pyro agrees with you regarding The Chicago Manual of Style.
Oh good. I'd hate to be wrong on that one. :)
On the grammar thing, I also just kind of followed my nose with grammar, and depended on how I'd read things written. That is until I began teaching my children grammar. Then, I realized I had no idea why I was telling them anything. Teaching grammar has helped me a lot with my own grammar and construction. I have found my children have learned the most grammar by writing and having their work corrected. My daughter who is in university recently received an e-mail from her 13 year old brother, and she confessed that he was a better writer than most of her companions at school.
My initial response to your question re: "verses that show God is completely content with Himself" is not a verse or verses per se, but the entire concept of the Sabbath rest of God. Perhaps this is because I've been preparingto lead a discussion of Hebrews 3 and 4.
Since I need to be there in an hour, I don't have time to develop the idea of the relationship between God's rest and his contentment, so I'll just leave this quick quote from Richard Phillips:
"His reign is one of rest--that is, of absolute supremacy and unassailable sovereignty--so much so that he exerts all rule from a position of rest."
Hope that's not a bunny trail that gets the discussion off track.
On the subject on God's own pleasure...may I suggest John Piper's book "The Pleasures of God" It provided great insight into what brings God joy. And you are right we can not...what brings Him joy?....
1 sinner repenting.
When He sees His character displayed in us BECAUSE of Christ in us. If God display His mercy that brings Him joy because it is a perfect reflection of Him.
If God receives any joy at all...it is as He diplays His mercy, His patience, His Character in us.
Apart from His reflection on us, we can not bring Him joy.
I worry when I hear good meaning people say, God needs me or (I have even heard) God was lonely and that is why He created man. How far from the Truth is that.
The perfect Trinity lives in perfect harmony, communion and is in need of nothing else.
Janet
I found myself repeating my thoughts in the last post. please forgive...
1) Yes, regarding the Chicago Manual of Style
2) Janet voiced something I've heard over and over, "God was lonely...", "God needs you..." --so totally contrary to Scripture, but widely accepted today.
Yes, I hear that every once in a while, too. God is relational, so he needed companionship. Off the top of my head, I can think of two problems with this:
1.It contradicts Paul, who says God doesn't need us for anything.
2.God exists as trinity, so he has eternal companionship.